Ward, I thank you for the useful info on Tren. I myself have never run Tren yet. Considering it down the road in a few more cycles. But Clen is no good to me. I feel people over do it by not doing enough research on what it actually does to your body. THERMOGENIC wise. I had a cousin think he knew what he was doing and took 2 dosages of clen yesterday ( when packaging advised 1 in morning and 1 at night) for pre workout and he had loved his worked out so in the afternoon he decided to take 2 dosages again. Of course since he is my cousin he did not tell me about this being that i would of strongly advised against him doing so. Anyways he called me freaking out how his heart wouldn't stop pounding and how cracked out he felt. I told him he was and idiot and never to take it again.